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Autor Tema: Elevar Lada Niva  (Leído 27269 veces)



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Elevar Lada Niva
« en: Mar, 21 Diciembre 2010, 17:29:14, pm »
Lada Niva Lift.
Wedges, rings, tubes & free cheese...



 

 

  

The Lada Niva is relatively easy to lift, and while you can get Niva lift kits off-the-shelf (in non-English speaking countries at least), Niva lifts can be easily done a number of Do-It-Yourself ways.

Below are details for the four main methods, but bare in mind this amusingly translated piece of Russian advice on lifting Nivas, "free cheese it does not occur, any elevator kills suspension"; ie lifting will lead to some compromises. And don't forget to check out the warnings at the bottom of the page.

Note: For those from sensible metric countries 1 inch or 1" equals about 25mm (25.4 to be more exact).

Also note: I can't vouch for any of the suppliers listed below as I have not dealt with them personally.

Click on the images for a bigger view.

<< Back to Baxter's Temple of Niva main page

 

 

Raising Niva

Front Lift Overview

There are 4 main ways to lift a Niva's front suspension, all of which do lift the cross-member and diff from the ground: coils, rings, wedges, or tubes. Longer coils or spacer-rings essentially increase the length between the upper and lower wishbones. Wedges and tubes also increase this length, but by lifting the coil-platform from the wishbone.


Four methods for lifting the Lada Niva's front suspension (click on image for a bigger view)

Front lifts can generally keep the standard dampers (see below), but ideally need either the upper bump-stop to be trimmed or a balljoint-spacer (details below) to be fitted.

After any front suspension lift you'll need to get your steering alignment reset as it will create toe-out and increased positive camber (some people have found they need ball-joint-spacers to keep the camber within adjustment range).

If you do not remove your anti-sway bar there are complications for lifts that raise the coil platform (eg wedges, and tubes) - please note the warnings (and solutions) at the bottom of the page regarding modifications that lift the coil platform while retaining the anti-roll bar.

Detailed information on these lifts is below.

You can of course also get an inch or so lift simply from fitting taller tyres. This has the advantage of also Raising your differentials.


Rear Lift Overview

Most Niva rear end lifts are done with either spacer-rings or longer coils. Lifting the rear will not raise the diff centre from the ground; only taller tyres will do that. Rear lifts generally require longer travel dampers to be fitted (more details below).

Check the rear brake hose isn't under stress at full suspension travel, as some people have needed to also fit a longer rear brake hose with rear lifts. But with the Hoodoo I haven't found this necessary; ie at full suspension droop the brake hose is not under stress (at least not with my 'short' standard dampers).

You may also need to adjust your brake proportioning valve, or extend its bracket (see below).

Detailed information about lifting the rear is below under Lifting the Rear.

 

Please note the warnings at the bottom of the page.

If you're in doubt about anything check in at Lada.co.uk   for advice - as suspension failure can be fatal.

 


 

Lifting the Front

 

Wedge Lifts
The wedge increases the distance between the upper and lower wishbones by raising the coil's lower platform.

The Original Do-It-Yourself Hoodoo Niva Lift Kit

The tried & tested do-it-yourself Hoodoo 50mm (2 inch) Lift consists of short and long wedges between the lower wishbone and coil-platform, and spacer rings between the rear coils and floor. You can optionally either fit a ball-joint spacer, or trim the top bump-stops 50mm and about 3mm of spacers on the top wishbone to correct the camber.

The advantages of this lift is that it retains the stock spring (and damper rates at the front), and the wedge helps straighten out the banana-ing of the front coils. Also, it is cheap and relatively easy DIY. Be aware of the potential problem if you retain your anti-roll bar (see warning below).

It will give 12.5" under the cross-member on 215/15 tyres, and 13" on 600/16, which is more than enough. There's room to space the front diff down by 0.25" to reduce the drive-shaft angle, spacing it down any lower will negate the lift by putting the alloy diff in the firing line for rocks etc.

Though the wedges are made from 3mm box-section steel and look like they might crush or twist easily as they get pounded about off-road, many kits have been built and heavily used - and no breakages have been reported. You could of course have the wedge made from solid steel or alloy.

Hoodoo's rear spacer ring is made from polybush (Internal diameter 86mm, Outer diameter 136mm, Wall width 25mm, Wall height 25mm), see details below. 50mm longer travel dampers are recommended for the rear.

Hoodoo Fitting Instructions (Jonno).

The home of Hoodoo downloads live at ExCossack's site ,
a complete zip file of the DIY should be here .

Hoodoo   himself is an active member of Lada.co.uk  and can be contacted there for information.

 

  

    


Why a 25mm spacer lifts 50mm


Plate Lift
A variation on the Wedge Lift is the Plate Lift. This would have the advantage of being more rigid than a wedge, and having a greater seating area for the coil platform than tube lifts. Dimensions given are: outer plate 24mm, inner plate 16mm. I'd watch out not to make the size difference too great though (ie the flat base of the coil platform will not like being stepped too much like I suspect the black ones below will), which mean it won't be as good a solution for the coil banana-ing as a wedge would be (unless wedge shaped plates are made). And at 24mm the anti-roll bar warning also still applies.

  

 

 

 


Ring Lifts
Spacer-ring lifts artificially increase the length of the coil, but they have the advantage of retaining standard coil rates (and standard dampers in the front). This is by far the easiest way of lifting the rear (see the Hoodoo lift above), but can also be used at the front. Like a coil lift they do not lift the coil platform, so they also avoid the steering anti-roll bar conflict.

They are popular in Europe and Niva ones can often be found on Ebay etc. There are 2 types, either a basic ring that sits between the factory ring and the body, or a taller ring that replaces the factory ring. Suitable generic rings may be bought from 4x4 shops. The front rings need some way of locating the the coil (either a lip, or separate tube).

See below (under Lifting the Rear) for more info on lifting the rear with rings.

 


Hoodoo2 Niva Lift

For those of us who live where authorities frown on the Hoodoo wedge lift, Hoodoo came up with the Hoodoo2 which uses rings in the front as well as the rear. Here's some pictures of fitting the Hoodoo2 prototype kit to my Niva.

With 20mm thick ball-joint spacers, my H2 lift was about 1.25 to 1.5 inches in the front. On my 205/80-16s the cross-member was originally 10" from the ground, with the prototype H2 it was somewhere around 11.25 to 11.5", so you could probably safely use slightly thicker rings to get another 0.5" of lift (as a guide, front rings in the Euro kits look to be about 30 to 40mm thick).

It's pretty much as easy as doing the rear, but you'll need to make a "BN tube" inner locator ring from a piece of steel tube (80mm ID, 3 to 4mm wall thickness, 60mm tall) to guide the coil into place.

Hoodoo's front spacer ring is: Outer diameter 113mm, Wall height 25mm, Internal diameter is half a mm smaller than the Outer diameter of the BN tube. I'd recommend still using a ball-joint-spacer instead of trimming the bump-stops.

The latest H2 DIY information should be at Excossack's site  
on the "Downloads" page, fitting instructions here  .

 
Hoodoo2 ring lift


Bobbyd's Hoodoo2 lift

 

Belgian Niva ring lift kit

Also very similar to the Hoodoo2 kit, though rings are 40 to 45mm thick, the ball-joint spacer is 30mm thick. The front rings are machined with an inner locator ring to guide the coils into place. More info  (Dutch). I assume longer dampers are required on the rear at least. Ladanivabelgium can be contacted on the US Lada forum .

    


Ladanivabelgium Lifted vs Un-lifted

 

Turkish Niva ring lift kit

Much like the Hoodoo2 kit, front and rear rings, but with the inner locator ring cast into the fronts:



 

Portuguese Niva ring lift

 
Dbf's (Portugal) 40mm ring lift

 

Factory style ring lift

I've seen this set on European E-Bay that look totally factory, but longer. This set is described as giving a "a moderate 2cm lift", though I've seen the same photo describing them as a 5cm lift (just looking at them I doubt that):



Here's a very similar (the same?) Russian set for the rear that comes with some damper spacers:



  

 

 



Coil Lifts
Coils are an easy and usually legal way to lift a Niva. Coils can be either longer or stiffer (or both) to raise height. Some people do not like the stiffer suspension caused by stiffer coils, and stiffer coils are generally a disadvantage for articulation off-road.

Coil lifts do not raise the coil platform, so they avoid the steering anti-roll bar conflict.

Like other lifts, you'll generally need to put longer dampers in the rear, though the fronts can stay standard if you don not lift more than 50mm.

Coils are best ordered to length as cutting them to suit is frowned upon in most places.

 

 

Niva coil lift magazine article
UK magazine, International Off-Roader, did an article on a Niva coil lift.

 

Wrecker-yard Coils



I've read various reports of other coils that fit in front and rear without needed to be cut (eg front coils from HQ Holdens, XC Falcons, Saab turbo rears, Mercedes W123 fronts), but so far have found this to be largely unsubstantiated.
Standard Niva coils are 278mm (front), 434mm (rear) - HQ front coils are 380mm and about 1mm thicker and need to be shortened to around 330mm for the front to give a 50mm lift ( Falcon coils need similar treatment).
As for the rear salada02 from the Australian Niva Forum reports "XE OR XF FALCON REAR VERIABLE RATE COILS FIT THE NIVA AND GIVE A GOOD RIDE".


38cm of Holden front coils - no way is that going to fit safely


Similar coils from a Ford Falcon cut to a free length of 33cm give about a 5cm lift

 

Aftermarket Coils



Any coil manufacturer should be able to make coils to your specification for not too much more than the off-the-shelf price, but there are also Niva coil lifts available off-the-shelf:

King Springs in Australia sell 2" raised coils for Nivas (part no.s: front KLFR10, rear KLRR11).

Cobra Coils  (sold through Repco) in NZ sell 'raised' coils for Nivas
Front: Part no: CLFH-01 "Modification to top bump-stop may be required. Extended length shocks recommended."
Rear: Part no: CLRH-01 "Long travel shocks recommended"

Dobinsons   in Australia (will export) sell a 35mm coil lift (front C33-02, rear C33-03). They also sell extended dampers for this kit, the front ones are heavy duty and require the coil mount to be reinforced (front GS33-087B, rear GS33-635W).
A complete kit of 35mm Dobinsons with "Robust" brand gas shocks is sold by on EBay by ultracheapauto   from Australia.

Pedders, Opposite Lock, Iron Man , Lovells and Old Man Emu also have listed up-rated coils for Nivas. You may also need longer dampers in the rear.

Scorpion Racing (UK) used to do raised Niva coils that came with a b-j spacer: "They have a 15% stiffer spring rate and give 2 inches (5 cm) of lift. Essentially, the new springs have 2 more full coils over the stock ones. The front coils are wound from 16mm (5/8 inch) diameter steel and have an overall height of 29 cm. The new coils have 8 full turns plus a little overlap. The free height of the new coils is 29 cm (stock free height is 27.8cm). The rear coils are wound from 14.6mm (9/16 inch) diameter steel and have an overall height of 46cm (stock free height is 43.4 cm). The new rear coils have 11 turns plus about 1/4 turn overlap."
However, many people have found the Scorpion coils to be too stiff for off-roading.


King Springs and Rancho RS5000 2" lift


Ironman 2" coil lift


 

 


  Tube Lifts
Tubes work on the same principle as the Hoodoo wedge kit (hence the same warnings apply), but uses tubes instead of the wedges to raise the coil platform. Tube front lifts are popular in Russia and South America, and are available off-the-shelf.

Size

Length It's also usual for the tubes on the outer end of the wishbone to be longer than the inners (thus leveling the coil platform the same way a wedge does). Hoodoo advises against his wedge being any higher than 25mm (outer end), so likewise 25mm would be the tube length for a 50mm lift.

Steering-arm problem: From what I can make out on the Russian forums a maximum tube length length of less than 20mm for the outer mounts seems likely to avoid the steering-arm problem, but 25mm high outers will certainly catch (if you keep your anti-roll bar); though "Engineer" on the Russian Niva FAQ used 2x20mm, 2x17.8mm, 2x13.2mm, & 2x10.7mm and still found the anti-roll bar mounts needed shifting. See warning below (and bare in mind that there are differences between lhd and rhd steering set-up so this may or may not apply).

    

Diameter As for the tube diameter I'd make it at least the same as the seating area on the wishbones to make sure you're not putting too greater stress on a smaller area of the coil-platform. "Engineer" on the Russian Niva FAQ suggests an outer tube diameter of 30mm, and inner of 10.5mm.

 

Dalibor's DIY Niva tube lift
From Croatia, Dalibor's tube lift (image below) gives the dimensions of his tubes as: 1x25mm, 2x12.5mm, and 1x7.5mm per side. Instructions for Dalibor's Tube Lift.

  

 

Ahorton's DIY Niva tube lift
Ahorton from Difflock has done a budget DIY version (images below) that gives a 2 inch lift using 8 short brass tubes: garden water fittings with a wall thickness of 2.5mm, ID of 12.5mm (and no b-j spacer afaia). 4 tubes on each side, with lengths 2x25mm, 1x17mm, and 1x5mm per side. I'd think that they'd ideally need to be thicker walled so their seating area is at least the same size as standard (ie these have a smaller section of the coil platform taking the same total loading), but after 18 months of use Ahorton reports them to be in fine condition.


 


 

A French version uses 10 and 15mm long steel tubes, I expect this would give about a 3cm lift. I'm not sure why their centre holes on the black set are so much bigger than the bolts, I'd certainly be making it as snug fit to the bolts as possible to stop movement. Also I'd make the tubes' diameter bigger than the silver set below because the smaller seating area than original on the base plate will put more focused forces on it:

  

 

Washer 'tube' lifts
I'd be a little dubious of a big stack of washers instead of tubes - and the WOF/MOT inspector would laugh them out of the workshop - though the Brazilian Scherer lift kit (left) uses 10 washers on the outer bolt, and 5 on the inner (plus a ball-joint-spacer, and rings on the rear). Personally I'd only use anything more than a couple of washers only to trial various heights, and then have steel tube made to fit after you've determined the correct heights for your specific application and your Niva.

 
Scherer and another Brazilian lift recommend stacks of 10 (outer) and 5 (inner) washers (click on image for a bigger view). if not taller than 20mm should avoid the steering problem...

 
...but if the tallest stack is more than 20mm, be aware of the steering interference problem (see below).

 

Brazilian Niva tube lift kit

Brazilian versions can be bought from Apoio 4x4   or Natal 4x4  (who also sell other Niva accessories). These kits look to use a plastic tubes instead of steel; if you copy this make sure you use impact and shatter resistant plastic so they do not collapse.

   
Apoio 4x4 (click on image for a bigger view)

 
Natal 4x4

 

Russian Niva tube lift kits

There are several Russian tube lift kits available (generally with rings in the rear). The kit below is includes lengthened top diff arms and panhard to account for altered geometry of the the rear lift, rear damper spacers, ball-joint-spacers, and what looks like a modified coil-platform (I assume to avoid the steering-arm problem). I believe this kit can be bought off-the-shelf from Kor Off Ka 4x4 .



Available with either damper relocating brackets:


Or with longer dampers (and some reinforced lower rear arms):


 

A similar kit with lengthened rods etc can be bought from F-Design (who also sell other off-road Niva accessories).

 
Russian F-Design front tube lift

NivaShop probably also sell kits and lift parts, but as their website refuses to load on my PC in any browser, I can't tell you anything about them.

 

 

 

Lifting the Rear

Most Niva rear-end lifts are done with either spacer-rings or longer coils, and generally require longer travel dampers to be fitted.

Hoodoo's rear spacer ring is made from polybush or similar shatter-proof material: Internal diameter 86mm, Outer diameter 136mm, Wall width 25mm, Wall height 25mm. Longer rear dampers are needed: 22"/560mm (fully extended).



Do-It-Yourself versions have been made from diverse handy materials including: Ikea chopping boards, wood, hard rubber, and even wheel-barrow wheels.

If you want metal rings steel or alloy etc can be used, but the inner diameter will need to be slightly larger as the above dimensions are designed to stretch over the cone, and some slight shaping of the outside as the hole it sits in isn't fully square.

     
Alloy rear ring with measurements (click on image for a bigger view).

 
Metal ring with coil locators; ie replaces the entire Lada top ring instead of sitting on top of the Lada ring like a Hoodoo rear

 

If you can not find longer coils or suitable material to make Hoodoo style rear rings, you can raise the rear coil platform to achieve much the same effect.

  

 

You may also need to adjust your brake proportioning valve, as the lift affects the relationship between the rear axle and the body.

Alternately you can extend the valve's bracket to restore the relationship:
 
Extended brake proportioning valve lever (available from F-Design).

 

 

 

Dampers/Shocks

Front: Dampers (a.k.a. shock-absorbers) remain stock length with a 50mm Niva lift, and standard Niva dampers are perfectly up to off roading, many find them better than up-rated after-market dampers (Rancho RS 5605 is a standard replacement size if beefier shocks are needed).

Rear: With small lifts stock length dampers are fine, eg dragonlada has run 3 inches longer springs (30mm lift) at the rear with original length shocks for 10 years. But for a 50mm lifts longer rear dampers of 22"/560mm (fully extended) are recommended

Explorer Pro Comp ES3000 (oil) or ES9000 (gas) dampers are used on many lifted Nivas (Hoodoo prefers the smoothness and more gentle absorption of the 9000s over the 3000s). Dampers from some Nissan and Toyotas 4WDs and Mitsubishi cars are also the correct size (eg Nissan King Cab D21 shocks are the same compressed length as the Lada, but 40mm longer on extension). Rancho RS 5118 are the right length for a 50mm lift (standard length is RS 5113), but will likely be stiffer than standard.

 
Nissan King Cab D21 rears vs Niva rears; note tube body on the Munroes is wider than Lada's so may need spaced away from the axle a little (or find a make with narrower tubes).

Note: with stiffer than factory dampers (eg hi-performance oil & most gas types) the mounts will likely need to reinforced, especially the front tops. Plus you will loose some off-road performance with overly stiff shocks.

Alternately, instead of longer dampers to accomodate lift, the lower damper mounts can be raised, or the upper mounts moved outboard to allow greater effective drop for the original rear dampers.

   
But I think this might mean loosing 2" of upwards travel useful for articulation, that could be otherwise gained by fitting dampers with the sock compressed length and 2" longer travel.


 

 

Ball-joint Spacer

A ball-joint spacer is not essential for for smaller lifts, but you will loose some suspension travel (lifting effectively pushes the bump-stop upwards towards the upper suspension, thus losing some travel). This can be addressed by either trimming some of the rubber off the top bump-stops, or by using a ball-joint spacer.

A ball-joint spacer (fitted between the top ball-joint and the top suspension arm) will not only save you having to trim your bump-stops, but it may also help keep your camber within the original alignment range, especially with bigger lifts.

The thickness of the spacer depends on your application: I have a 20mm thick ball-joint spacer which brings things within range for my 50mm lift. Others have used spacers between 10 and 30mm thick (the more the lift, the more you'll likely need), though generally between 20 and 25mm is correct, any more and you may have too much positive camber.

Always use high-tensile steel bolts (eg 8.8 or better) capable of taking the forces in suspension when adding spacers (the factory bolts are too short), and use lock-washers or nylock nuts.

 
Make with thickness to suit

 

 

 

How high can I go?

Remember lifting also lifts the centre of gravity, making you more likely to roll when on a tilt. The more you lift, the more you decrease the vehicle's angle safe operational angle.

 
Lifting decreases your tilt angle limit

Front

It is generally accepted that a 50mm front lift puts the CV angle near their effective operational limit. More lift is possible, and some people have done 75/80mm lifts and had no CV problems, but others have not been so lucky. With such bigger lifts you'll probably need to cut more off the bump-stop, and may need longer shocks and brake hoses.

If you need more than 50mm lift in the front body lifts (eg Simon's | Spanish) can be done to avoid the CV problem, but they won't get you any extra clearance (ie the diff is not raised any higher from the ground), and extreme lifting will make you far more likely to roll off-road.

Rear

The rear of the Niva will happily accommodate a 50mm lift (ie 25mm thick Hoodoo rings). It will bring the rear wheels and axle forward and to the the right a little because of the suspension arms, but everything should remain within an acceptable range.

 
The more you lift the rear the more the radius arms pull the rear wheels forward; hence longer arms are needed for bigger lifts.

The angle that drive-shaft's universal joints run at also need to be considered, as lifting will increase this angle. No problems have been noted with 50mm lifts, but if this is a problem with higher lifts a double cardan prop shaft can be used to help solve this (or re-angling the diff face, see below).

The sideways relocation of the axle caused by a lift isn't a problem with a 50mm lift. But for bigger lifts it can be corrected by an adjustable or lengthened panhard-rod (see picture above of the Russian kit), or lowering the panhard's body mount so it sits at it's standard angle in relation to the axle.

The rear axle can be relocated rearwards slightly by slotting the holes in the mounting bracket where the lower rear arm bolts to the body; ie simply relocating the bracket a few mm rearwards (note this may turn the face of diff downwards a little adding to the angle the universals have to work through). Sadly the upper arm mounts are welded on so can not be as easily relocated.

If a larger rearwards relocation of the axle is needed you can replace the upper and/or lower arms with adjustable or lengthened arms. You may be able to find something from a wreckers yard that has adjustable arms of the correct range and mounting sizes.

 
F-Design modified rear longitudinal bars

Bear in mind that altering the effective length of only the upper or only the lower arms will change the angle of the diff face, and thus the angle the universal joints run at. This could obviously be used to advantage by tilting the face slightly upwards to relieve the uni's angle.

The rear can probably be lifted a little more without as many issues as the front, though those that have lifted the rear around 80mm generally find adjustable or lengthened suspension arms are needed to get things right. Massive lifts (eg 150mm) will likely require a total redesign of the rear arms (eg no panhard and/or 3-link or 4-link top arms), and drive-shaft joins.

The brake hose may need to be swapped for a longer one for lifts more than 2".

 

 

 

Baxter's Lift

My current lift consists of Hoodoo rings in the rear, longer & stiffer coils in the front, and ball-joint spacers.


Hoodoo2 - Un-lifted vs Lifted

Front

Currently I have some modified Holden HQ coils in the front - they were supplied 38cm long (compared to the Niva's 28cm) and about 1mm thicker wire so had to be altered to 33cm free length. I have only changed to this lift because it's slightly more legal than the Hoodoo2 lift I had previously (we have unusually strict - and somewhat stupid - modifications laws in New Zealand). It's slightly taller than prototype Hoodoo2 and around the same as the original Hoodoo; ie around 2".

Several people who have tried after-market longer/stiffer springs have found them to be too hard for comfort (notably these coils were mostly the UK Scorpion ones people found too stiff). Mine are probably a little stiffer than ideal but certainly tolerable to me, though I personally prefer a stiffer feel (ew, er), especially without the anti-rollbar.

I have 20mm ball-joint spacers to help gain distance between the bump stop and the top arm, and to get back within camber adjustment range.

Rear

I have Hoodoo rear rings, but haven't as yet fitted 2" longer shock-absorbers you need to to stop them topping out. This hasn't appeared to be a problem as far as I'm aware - yet. As I've got virtually brand new rear dampers I think I'll probably try extending their mounts to get the recommended 22" extended length.



Warnings
WARNING 1: Modifying your suspension (even including anti-rollbar removal) may be illegal or subject to special tests in your country, so check first. It may also affect your insurance cover, so check this also.

WARNING 2: Always use bolts rated for the job, if you replace suspension or steering bolts use graded replacements (eg 8.8 or better), and lock-washers or nylock type nuts.

WARNING 3: It is generally considered that a 2 inch (50mm) suspension lift puts the angle of the CVs at their effective operational limit. You can lift more, but you'll greatly increase the risk of premature CV failure.

WARNING 4: With any front lift that lifts the coil-platform (ie wedges, plates, tubes, or washers) make sure the steering arms can not ever touch on the anti-rollbar anywhere on its travel from lock to lock throughout top to bottom suspension travel and on articulation. If it even looks close, you can either remove the anti-rollbar, or do Hoodoo's solution  (essentially relocating the bar's mounts on the underside of the coil platform and grinding some off the coil-platform if necessary):

 
Anti-roll bar steering interference fixes


Me ha parecido un aporte muy bueno ;)


S, R y GS



Desconectado Xavi-Ps10

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Re: Elevar Lada Niva
« Respuesta #1 en: Mar, 21 Diciembre 2010, 17:39:37, pm »
jodo... salen desde genialidades a burradas de calibre, uno en concreto que en lugar de cuña en el trapecio ha metido como 10 o 15 arandelas con un tornillo y una tuerca jajaja, ese ha ido a lo rapido ;D


Hasta el infinito y más payá...



Desconectado Toñin

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Re: Elevar Lada Niva
« Respuesta #2 en: Mar, 21 Diciembre 2010, 17:59:44, pm »
Me encanta ese coche, con todo lo que digan de el.



Desconectado wave

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Re: Elevar Lada Niva
« Respuesta #3 en: Mar, 21 Diciembre 2010, 18:07:11, pm »
Estaría bien aprovechar este post para Vender el Lada Niva ;)
Pero sí se lo vendo, mi padre me mata ;D
Eso sí, yo me iba a quedar de un agusto XDDD
Un Saludo.
S, R y GS